Interview with Jorge Amigo – Director of IMPI (Mexican Institute of Intellectual Property)
By Mario Campos Antenna Radio
November 13, 2009
Original Audio here

Jorge Amigo has been director of the IMPI for 14 years, he  led the  negotiatons of the NAFTA treaty for México and was one of the candidates to direct the World Intellectual Property Organization.

MARIO CAMPOS: Tell us what is this document that has generated concern not only in Mexico, but several parts of the world and an interest in knowing the scope of it.

JORGE AMIGO: Well first, as its name indicates, this is a negotiation that has to do with counterfeiting and piracy worldwide. The idea came from a group of countries like USA, Japan mainly,  then the entire European community joined,  Switzerland, Australia, Canada and finally Morocco.

The idea is to negotiate some rules at the international level, precisely in order to attack together the  phenomena of counterfeiting and piracy.

There is a common theme that cover 3 aspects, that have to do with what is considered as crime, i mean the criminal part, the administrative part and the civil part, and within this there is a portion relative to border protection. That is the issue we have been negotiating for a year and a half, more or less

MARIO CAMPOS: As we know is very broad, but what about the it Internet chapter?

JORGE AMIGO: We have not negotiated anything yet about it,  and well I respect the comments of  Mr. Sánchez,  in the sense that there is concern not only in Mexico but all countries, including USA, about what we are negotiating. However, like any negotiation, the information is classified and the only thing that this treaty seeks is to improve the international legal framework to effectively tackle this kind of phenomena.

We haven’t negotiate any details about the Internet and related issues, where there may be the subject of piracy and counterfeiting.

There still some meetings left, the next one possibly in Mexico in January. On the website of IMPI, we have recently publish the last thing- you can put out in the public- about the last meeting that took place a week ago in Korea.

In January comes the next reunion, we’ll try the same type of topics, with more detail, because if the idea is to create a kind of agreement against piracy and counterfeiting soon. This will cover all the issues, not only piracy and counterfeiting of tangible goods but the intangible, like in the topic of digital piracy.

MARIO CAMPOS: Surely this is one of the most important issues, as technology evolves it gains influence. In this process, when the participation will be open to the interested parts?

JORGE AMIGO:
Look good question i’m glad you asked. From the beginning , the Mexican delegation when the informal talks began- before selecting the actors of the formal talks- …we proposed a scheme similar to that we out with NAFTA. That is the scheme that along with negotiators from each country, we include our private sector. Because finally, the private sector of each country, has the market knowledge, second has much more information and third: either they  are most affected or have the most ideas to give us ideas, about  how to improve this framework.

MARIO CAMPOS: Certainly the private sector is relevant, but we must complete the perspective with the one of  the users of digital information ..

JORGE CAMPOS: Sure, when I say private sector I mean everything, users and service providers and everybody …

MARIO CAMPOS: Is there is already a draft of the text, if not about what is discussed between countries, about the position of Mexico?

JORGE AMIGO: Yes of course. Each country has its own draft.  In the case Mexico we have one that we have been improving. This is not a matter only of IMPI, IMPI only see the  administrative part.. With us is of course the PGR on the part of intellectual property crimes and the General Administration of Customs, and obviously the Ministry of Economy.

MARIO CAMPOS: This document is public? Or will be available to those who want to see it?

JORGE AMIGO: Look, the document with the positions of each country is not public, as we agreed in the very beggining of ACTA. But what  we will  soon  do, in January 2010, is to call for audiences with the private sector, including users, including carriers of such systems,  to show what about is negotiation of Mexico. I must say that we have done this  privately, we have consulted in some cases,  but we want to make it  more transparent, yet still with reservations, but more transparent.

MARIO CAMPOS But at this point, Mr. Jorge Amigo precisely to avoid any suspicion and that information gaps are filled with other versions – some may be right but, maybe some have no reason – …  to avoid these suspicions like if ISP’s are going to watch that downloads,like if they can check your computer at the border, your mp3 player, etc. .. isn’t  better to make public the document now?

JORGE AMIGO: Yes of course, but as I mentioned, we proposed from the beginning this type of action, but is not only Mexico, there are other particpants at this meeting that did not consider convenient to make public, what is being negotiated at this early stage.

Now as any negotiation you put an issue on the table and we can take hours,  meetings after meetings to discuss a single topic. And as there are many actors involved is not easy to agree.

There are also different legal systems worldwide, and there are obviously different criminal codes, laws, regulations, which are not necessarily identical or even similar from one country to another. Then the negotiations are carried out under the scheme that of all international negotiations .. that is a basic premise is: nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

This means that when you have differences of words, single-line, a paragraph, a line, an idea, what we do -is as we say in the negotiations,  we put them in between brackets – and we quote who is disagree with the proposition.

If Mexico does not agree with this, we put the Mexican bracket and then we have to offer the alternative for the paragraph of discussion. Right? Then we thought that at this stage – from today to the past – that it’s too early yet, to release a document that still has brackets. Since we are now starting to clean brackets, yes, it is important to involve all those interested.

I want to say one thing, there is nothing strange, you can be sure and calm.  Mexico is not going to negotiate something that is outside of our legislation, which goes against the constitution, laws or the criminal code. Obviously we are not going to do it. And there is another rule .. that while we no longer accept new countries to become part of the ACTA because it’s closed, since the beginning we agreed – in the case of Mexico-, that If we don’t like  the final document, with or without private sector and users involved, – Mexico can pull out  from the ACTA without any consequences.

MARIO CAMPOS: Well it will be important to follow up. It is a very important issue for the economy of the country, all that has to do with counterfeiting and piracy in its various versions. We will be in communication, so that in the level that documents are disclosed the suspicions will be gone, and just because this,  information,  is the what solves the subject, and also the opportunities of public participation before you reach a final agreement.

JORGE AMIGO: Yes,  I totally agree.

And let me use your program that have a large audience to announce  that from 1 -3 of December  in Mexico, we will celebrate the 5th World Congress on Combating Piracy and counterfeiting. We are expecting around 1000 people,  like the  General Secretary  of INTERPOL and the Secretary of the World Customs Organization. We are expecting very important people to address these issues.

This is of course open to the public, is completely open, and is in Cancun 1 – 3 Dec this year.

MARIO CAMPOS Okay Mr. Amigo, people is asking us trough the Internet an email adress to get in contact with you.

JORGE AMIGO: Of course is in my page, but my personal address is  jamigo@impi.gob.mx

MARIO CAMPOS: All right, this was Jorge Amigo, Director of  Mexican Institute of Intellectual Property.Thanks and we will keep in touch.

MR. AMIGO: #ACTA = COPYRIGHT